what make cause a skill to change during Skill Balance update? - Guild Wars Forums

leoknight · Feb 07, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

I was thinking about for sometime about the skill balance update back in 6 or 7 months ago. What make it each skill change during that update? Was all this all of these skills change demand by Guild Wars players or was it from other reason? Anyone have any idea about this?

Savio · Feb 07, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

It's because Anet sees that a skill is underused, abused, or breaks the game somehow, and tries to rectify it. Tries, anyhow. They don't do it just because players demand it; case in point, IWAY.

leoknight · Feb 07, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

It's because Anet sees that a skill is underused, abused, or breaks the game somehow, and tries to rectify it. Tries, anyhow. They don't do it just because players demand it; case in point, IWAY.

I just think if there is any skills that might be underused or abused then it should be change before GW final release already. Some skills is better before the skill balance update changed it like most of mesmer skill but then again there is skill improves from other profession after the skill balance update. I just wish that Anet would let everyone know the reason for why some skill change it. Personally I am not happy with some of the skills change from skill balance update.

RotteN · Feb 07, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

the change is made for exactly what the name states : balance.

as for claiming it should've been done before the final release, that's just a foolish remark. competition always pushes the boundaries of what's possible, and most of the time, people will find stuff that went unnoticed at first and use it to their advantage (oath shot + spirits anyone ? emosmite ?).

what you describe as "the skills were better" was most likely an issue with balance, when talking about mesmers : stuff like energy drain was simply too powerfull. Even with the current numbers you can still drain anyone pretty damn fast...

skill balance changes are made to make the game more versatile, instead of seeing everyone run the most powerfull combo ...

Soul Shaker · Feb 07, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

i reckon they'll nerf IWAY to not affect pets. Now, that will destroy the build.

leoknight · Feb 08, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

the change is made for exactly what the name states : balance.

as for claiming it should've been done before the final release, that's just a foolish remark. competition always pushes the boundaries of what's possible, and most of the time, people will find stuff that went unnoticed at first and use it to their advantage (oath shot + spirits anyone ? emosmite ?).

what you describe as "the skills were better" was most likely an issue with balance, when talking about mesmers : stuff like energy drain was simply too powerfull. Even with the current numbers you can still drain anyone pretty damn fast...

skill balance changes are made to make the game more versatile, instead of seeing everyone run the most powerfull combo ...

Well, you can say mesmers are powerful but you can't really say they are over powered than other professions, while mesmers having powerful spells at the same itme there was trade off which they are lack of healing skill and high energy cost. Plus if you are talking about powerful, with a right set of skill on elementalists they could take you down as quick as in 10 seconds (a lot more deadly than mesmers skill can ever be) and what people called 55 monks were also very powerful spell on healing power too. Overall there was not a fair skill balance before nor after the skill balance update. Of course, everyone will have different opinion about this skill balance changes depend on your favorite profession and other professions you're playing.

Savio · Feb 08, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Well, you can say mesmers are powerful but you can't really say they are over powered than other professions, while mesmers having powerful spells at the same itme there was trade off which they are lack of healing skill and high energy cost.

1. You're forgetting secondaries. E-Drain was more efficient than current staples like OoB, and it drained enemies of energy too. Why not equip it on your Monks, Necros, and the like?

2. It's not like most of the other professions have viable healing skills. That's what you could use a secondary for, not that I'd recommend you to bring self-heals.

Quote:

Plus if you are talking about powerful, with a right set of skill on elementalists they could take you down as quick as in 10 seconds

Change that to Warriors or Rangers, not Eles. Why Nuking Sucks.

Quote:

what people called 55 monks were also very powerful spell on healing power too

That's why Life Bond was nerfed and enchant strippers added everywhere. 55 monks don't affect other players as much as PvP, so it's not as high of a priority to be changed.

Quote:

Overall there was not a fair skill balance before nor after the skill balance update. Of course, everyone will have different opinion about this skill balance changes depend on your favorite profession and other professions you're playing.

You seem to have your own opinion too. Define "fair" and we can have a meaningful discussion.

leoknight · Feb 08, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

1. You're forgetting secondaries. E-Drain was more efficient than current staples like OoB, and it drained enemies of energy too. Why not equip it on your Monks, Necros, and the like?

2. It's not like most of the other professions have viable healing skills. That's what you could use a secondary for, not that I'd recommend you to bring self-heals.

Change that to Warriors or Rangers, not Eles. Why Nuking Sucks.

That's why Life Bond was nerfed and enchant strippers added everywhere. 55 monks don't affect other players as much as PvP, so it's not as high of a priority to be changed.

You seem to have your own opinion too. Define "fair" and we can have a meaningful discussion.

To define exactly how it is to be fair, I would reallly need to go into details but I am trying to make it as short as possible here, so let's just forget about your 2nd profession for a second, let's just focus on your primary profession and let just focus on casters which are necromancer, monk, elementalist, and mesmer.

While playing necromancer you never really have to worry too much on running low on energy from Soul Reaping. Using Blood magic, you can deal damage on your foe at same time you heal yourself from your skill like Vampiric Gaze, Vampiric Touch, and Shadow Strike. Death magic can summon an army of bone fiends and/or horrors and with Curses can deal more damage/heal degenration to foe and adjacent foes. Most SF, FoW, and UW group LF battery, mm, ss necro.

Playing monk Divine Favor with whole set of healing/protection skill along other spell remove condition/hex skill and blessed signet and resurrection skills. I do not play monk a lot therefore I do not know a lot this profession, but from I have encounter them and they can be the hardest target to kill and they can do some serious damage using smiting prayers.
Most SF, FoW, and UW group LF healing, protection monk.

Playing elementalist, of course energy storage give you extra energy with Aura of Restoration to gain some extra heal each time you cast a spell. They can deal serious damage using air magic or fire magic along with protection skill from earth magic and water magic. Once a lot of their offensive skill deal deamage to foe and adjacent foes. Most SF, FoW, and UW group LF nuker.

Well I know there is not all the abilities those profession can do, but that's just the general information about each profession. Base on that information, you see at least the quite balance set of skill with both offensive and denfensive skill. health or energy is not so much of the problem to worry about.

Now playing mesmer may be great to be able to cast spell faster. Using Illusion magic can cause quick health degeneration, cause your foe longer to cast a spell, and slow down your foe movement. Domination magic focus on more spells against caster like energy burn, guilt and other spell against warrior such as Empathy and Ignoance. Inspiration magic great for removing hex, removing enchantment on foe, and stealing energy from foe. Now downside about mesmer is that a lot of spells require high energy cost and/or longer recharge time. Most offensive skill is focus on a single target enemy. Lack of healing skill except Ether Feast plus you need to be at least 9 attribute point in inspration magic otherwise it will not heal you with much heal. For those trade off being a little more powerful on enegy stealing should be even thing out.

Now Energy Tap and Energy Drain used to steal exact amount of energy you gain directly from target foe and Mantra of Persistance used to have duration last longer than 30 seconds. Maybe Energy tap is bit over powered for a non-elite skill but Energy drain is an elite skill which suppose to be powerful therefore it should be stealing energy directly from target foe. Mantra of Persistance require 15 energy cost to use which should be last longer on the duration base on inspiration magic. I am sure you know those changes after the skill balance update already which I found it unfair for mesmers.

Also I notice mesmer was not so popular in the SF, Fow, UW run at all. You see people LF nuker, trapper, tank, healer, and so on.. but you don't see people LF mesmer so much as the other do. Which that is another reason I bought this topic up, that's why I am curious about the changes that have made during the skill balance update. I heard people saying bad thing about mesmer enemies in Tomb of the primeval king, and other location. Which is why I want to know was those change cause by people in Guild Wars and if mesmer is as powerful as people fear to be then why are mesmers not so popular. Most people used them only as their 2nd profession. People said they hate mesmer but come down the turth was they fear of mesmer yet most of them had under used mesmer as their 2nd profession.

JR · Feb 08, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36

You are trying to argue skill balance based on PvE. That is utterly ridiculous.

Good day to you, Sir.

Former Ruling · Feb 08, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

The large majority of Skill "nerfs" are for PvP.

If something is overpowering an area in PvE, they typically opt to Buff the monsters' skills instead of nerfing the human skills. This is why all the big areas of the game have interupts and enchant removal now.

There are only extreme cases where a Skill is nerfed for its PvE uses, and its usually in response to Farming Builds. At the end of Summer, Protective Bond (which I'm sure is what he meant by Life Bond) was slightly edited so that you could no longer get a 0 energy cost out of it - making the 55 monks resort to spamming Prot Spirit instead (It atleast adds an upkeep element to the build).

DeanBB · Feb 08, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

The 3 other caster professions you called out have their limits, just as do mesmers. I'm a full time PvE player.

Monks have limited energy management options with Peace and Harmony being their "flagship" energy skill. Woohoo. A non-enchantment maintaining monk can have energy trouble if not for a 2nd being used for OoB or something similar.

Elementalists do have some healing options but really I wouldn't rank it any higher than the mesmer's. They are enchantments which get stripped all the time in PvE. Their area DOT spells are not nearly as effective as they were before the changes, and this is a much bigger impact to the profession than anything a mesmer experienced.

Necros do have excellent energy and health options, especially in PvE where a lot of things are getting killed. Blood = steal health, Death = consume from corpse or minion. Well of blood/power, Offering of blood, etc. All good stuff.

I find my mesmer my least favorite of my 6 characters (1 each primary) as they are powerful and excellent at interrupts, punishing the enemy, etc. The problem is often you fight 3-6 of a critter and interrupting 1 isn't that effective when there are still 2-5 others casting the same spell. Example: imps, skales, dwarf groups of mesmers + necros, etc. I haven't ascended yet though to get to most of the elites, but still find it the profession I enjoy the least.

Feb 07, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24	#1
leoknight Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2005	what make cause a skill to change during Skill Balance update? I was thinking about for sometime about the skill balance update back in 6 or 7 months ago. What make it each skill change during that update? Was all this all of these skills change demand by Guild Wars players or was it from other reason? Anyone have any idea about this?

Feb 07, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29	#2
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	It's because Anet sees that a skill is underused, abused, or breaks the game somehow, and tries to rectify it. Tries, anyhow. They don't do it just because players demand it; case in point, IWAY. __________________ People are stupid.

Feb 07, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49	#4
RotteN Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: W/	the change is made for exactly what the name states : balance. as for claiming it should've been done before the final release, that's just a foolish remark. competition always pushes the boundaries of what's possible, and most of the time, people will find stuff that went unnoticed at first and use it to their advantage (oath shot + spirits anyone ? emosmite ?). what you describe as "the skills were better" was most likely an issue with balance, when talking about mesmers : stuff like energy drain was simply too powerfull. Even with the current numbers you can still drain anyone pretty damn fast... skill balance changes are made to make the game more versatile, instead of seeing everyone run the most powerfull combo ...

Feb 07, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51	#5
Soul Shaker Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia Guild: Soul Crusaders	i reckon they'll nerf IWAY to not affect pets. Now, that will destroy the build.

Feb 08, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36	#9
JR Re:tired Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: W/	You are trying to argue skill balance based on PvE. That is utterly ridiculous. Good day to you, Sir.

Feb 08, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26	#10
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	The large majority of Skill "nerfs" are for PvP. If something is overpowering an area in PvE, they typically opt to Buff the monsters' skills instead of nerfing the human skills. This is why all the big areas of the game have interupts and enchant removal now. There are only extreme cases where a Skill is nerfed for its PvE uses, and its usually in response to Farming Builds. At the end of Summer, Protective Bond (which I'm sure is what he meant by Life Bond) was slightly edited so that you could no longer get a 0 energy cost out of it - making the 55 monks resort to spamming Prot Spirit instead (It atleast adds an upkeep element to the build).

Feb 08, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19	#11
DeanBB Forge Runner Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Arizona Guild: Wizardry Players Guild, http://4guildwars.7.forumer.com	The 3 other caster professions you called out have their limits, just as do mesmers. I'm a full time PvE player. Monks have limited energy management options with Peace and Harmony being their "flagship" energy skill. Woohoo. A non-enchantment maintaining monk can have energy trouble if not for a 2nd being used for OoB or something similar. Elementalists do have some healing options but really I wouldn't rank it any higher than the mesmer's. They are enchantments which get stripped all the time in PvE. Their area DOT spells are not nearly as effective as they were before the changes, and this is a much bigger impact to the profession than anything a mesmer experienced. Necros do have excellent energy and health options, especially in PvE where a lot of things are getting killed. Blood = steal health, Death = consume from corpse or minion. Well of blood/power, Offering of blood, etc. All good stuff. I find my mesmer my least favorite of my 6 characters (1 each primary) as they are powerful and excellent at interrupts, punishing the enemy, etc. The problem is often you fight 3-6 of a critter and interrupting 1 isn't that effective when there are still 2-5 others casting the same spell. Example: imps, skales, dwarf groups of mesmers + necros, etc. I haven't ascended yet though to get to most of the elites, but still find it the profession I enjoy the least.